Episode 21 Podcast > Full Transcript
Hi, listeners, welcome back to Adopting! The Podcast. As always, I'm so excited to be your host for this journey. I'm Nicole Witt, Executive Director of The Adoption Consultancy where we guide pre-adoptive parents, step by step, through the adoption journey.
In Adopting! The Podcast, we're going to focus on the issues, questions and concerns you have as you get started in your adoption journey. This is for people who are just considering, brand new to adoption or early in the process, who are really just trying to get their questions answered and figure out their best path forward, as well as to learn about what to expect and how the process works.
Nicole Witt, Intro:
Now, there's a lot about the adoption process that seems mysterious, especially to people who are new to it. And the training that we offer to our clients helps explain and demystify a lot. But there's one particular area that I really want to dig into today, and that's the matching process. What I mean by that is the process that an agency or attorney follows to match an expectant mom with hopeful adoptive parents. Of course, every agency and every expectant mom is different. So, there will be nuances and exceptions to the rules. But today we're going to talk about some of the key elements of how a match gets made.
To help us explore this topic. I have with me today, Stephanie Aye, Founder and Executive Director of Adoption and Beyond. Since 1998, adoption and beyond has grown from a one-person home-based agency to an agency with several workers covering the states of Kansas and Missouri. Stephanie has worked with hundreds of wonderful birth parents, adoptive families and their children. In addition, she is the proud mother of five children, one having joined her family through adoption.
Nicole:
Thanks so much for joining us today, Stephanie.
Stephanie Aye:
Thank you, Nicole. I appreciate you having me on the show.
Nicole:
Yeah, it's great to have you. I just want to start by clarifying that you're going to, as best as you can, be talking to us about this process in general; meaning how it works across many different agencies and philosophies, not necessarily exactly how it works at your agency or at every agency in the country. Obviously, you're going to have your biases and your own experience, but I just want to lay that out for everybody that you're going to do your best to kind of give us more general answers.
Stephanie:
Yes, that's correct.
Nicole:
Okay. Why don't we start by having you give us sort of the the real 10,000-foot overview of the matching process so people just know what we're talking about before we dig into some of the details.
Stephanie:
So, a matching process happens when an expecting mom is pregnant and considering placing her child for adoption. She'll come to an adoption professional, and looking at placing her child, she'll want to learn a little bit about adoption. And then part of that is also helping her find a family that she would like to place her child with. So, the match meeting is helping her choose the family that she feels is best for her child.
Nicole:
Okay. Okay. Awesome. So, let's go to the beginning of the relationship between the agency and the expectant mom. What are some of the very first steps that are taken once she contacts an agency saying that she wants to place her child?
Stephanie:
So, we really explore making sure that adoption is the right thing and making sure she understands what it is and what it's not. It is a relinquishment of parenthood, and it's a continuation of a relationship with a family who's going to be parenting her child. So, making sure she understands that is the most important first step in looking at adoption.
So, once she has a clear understanding of what adoption is, then we go on to helping her with all the different pieces and parts. And part of that is helping her find a family.
Nicole:
Okay. And then generally speaking, there are kind of two different ways that the agencies approach this. Some will contact the hopeful adoptive parents first with the expectant moms information and ask them if they want their profile presented to her, and others will go ahead, based on the questionnaire that those adoptive parents have filled out, they may just go ahead and present their profile to her and then get back to them and say, “You've been selected or she's interested in talking to you.” Can you just kind of compare and contrast those two approaches for us?
Stephanie:
Yeah. What was really interesting; here recently, I'm part of a group called Metro Adoption Council. And it's a collection of agencies here in the Kansas City area where we come together once a month and do education. Here recently, on one of our meetings, we really got into this discussion about what is the right way to do it. And everybody had their pros and their cons to the different ways that they felt was best. And we all listened to each other, but we all still kept in our own camp. So, what we thought was best.
So, it was really fun to get into the debate and hear. And it really opened my eyes a little bit more. The way we do it is we do it on a questionnaire. The way some other agencies locally do it is presenting. And so, it was it was fun to hear why they thought that was the best way to do it. And so, it kind of opened my eyes a little bit more. And I, of course, explained why I thought it should be done from a questionnaire.
Nicole:
Okay. Now, for the opposite approach where they contact the pre-adoptive parents first. Usually, the adoptive parents have lots and lots of questions when they see that summary. And usually, the agency has shared all of the information that they have. So, there's often no additional answers to be given.
For any questions that the family has, though, I always tell my clients, “Focus on the questions that are make-or-break questions for you to decide if you want to be presented to this expectant mom. Because once an agency sends out that information, they're usually overwhelmed with questions of people asking things that are just kind of like, nice to know, but won't really factor into their decision.”
So, can you comment on that at all from an agency perspective? I know you do it differently, but maybe from what you learned in that meeting, any thoughts on that?
Stephanie:
Well, I really love that you indicate the make-or-break questions, because in the few times that I have presented opportunities to families ahead of time, just because they're unique circumstances and really, it goes beyond the normal circumstances. So, sometimes I have presented, and I find I do get overwhelmed with questions. So, I really appreciate the approach that you take in the having it be the make or break. And I think I'm going to use that in the future. Say, “Let me know your make or break questions that you've got,” because then that helps me. Because I'm trying to manage answering questions and trying to do all my other work as well. And you're right; it is overwhelming.
Nicole:
So, yeah. So, very important that they stick to that. Okay. Now, again, for people who are getting calls or emails from agencies saying, “Here's an opportunity.” “Here's an opportunity.” Although, it's relatively rare, in theory, they could have a situation where they have more than one opportunity to consider at a time. Can you comment on how agencies generally like them to handle that?
Stephanie:
So, you're right, it is a rare circumstances. And I'm a big advocate of agencies not putting a lot of restrictions on families. So, I tell each family – I tell the family when they have a couple of situations – I've had it in the past where I've allowed the family to pursue both opportunities, as long as everyone knew what was going on. As long as each expecting mom knew that they were pursuing two different situations at the same time. And as it turned out, one mom decided to go ahead and parent her child and the other placed.
And so, I find that as long as everyone is on the same page, everyone is aware of what's going on, I'm not a big believer in putting restrictions on people in the relationships they're going to develop and the way they're going to build their family. But usually families need to really look at the nuts and bolts of each situation and really decide which one they think is the best path for their family, not necessarily which one seems to be the easiest.
Nicole:
Yeah, that's a really good point. And I know most agencies do take a different approach in that they don't even like adoptive parents to present to more than one expectant mom at a time. So, that's something that's really important for people to know what their different agencies policies are about that before getting into it.
Stephanie:
Exactly.
Nicole:
Okay. So, kind of sticking with the approach, just because I think it's the more common one where the agency contacts the family first and says, “Hey, here's the expectant moms information. Do you want your profile presented?” Sometimes they don't. And that's a very difficult decision to come to. And I find with my clients, they're always very concerned about saying, “No, don't present our profile,” because they're worried about how that's going to impact their relationship with that agency.
I think there's a big difference, if they're saying no to an opportunity that lines up with everything that they said on their questionnaire was okay versus if they're saying no to one that doesn't line up with everything that they said was okay on their questionnaire. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Stephanie:
So, I find that if they're saying no to a situation that matches up with all of the criteria that they have set up, that it's probably time for us to go back and revisit that. And why did they feel this situation didn't fit when on paper it appeared to fit all their criteria? So, I think that's a good time to go back and have another conversation with the family and know exactly what they're looking for. Obviously, if it doesn't match their criteria, then they need to be okay with that.
So, when we notify a family that their profile has been shown and why it has not been shown, we find a lot of times these families want to go back and revisit their preferences again. Because each situation they may find, “Oh, I didn't think I would accept that, but as I look at it, I think I would accept that.” So, it's just going back and just keeping an open communication with families.
Now, I had a situation years ago where a family was presented with an opportunity. They knew all the information. They actually moved forward with the match meeting. They decided not to move forward with that expecting mom after the match meeting. And the reason was because of something that they told me that they knew about before. And so, I was very disappointed and very sad for this mom that she was interviewed and had a match meeting with a family who wasn't even really going to be looking at moving forward in the first place.
So, I think when a family says, okay to a situation that they need to be really committed to that situation to be able to move forward. Because it's really devastating to an expecting mom when she interviews a family and they say no. She then starts questioning her decision of, “Well, should I really be placing?” It could really harm the adoption process altogether.
Nicole:
Yeah, I know that's a great point. And I'm glad that you brought that up. And I always remind my clients as well, “Once you say, you know, ‘Yes, show my profile’ or if it's based on your questionnaire that it matches your criteria that you are saying, based on the current information, we are 100% committed to moving forward.”
Now, if new information comes out later, that's a whole different ballgame. People are worried about that. But based on the information, and assuming there will be no additional information, you have to make sure that you're 100% committed.
You also mentioned something I want to circle back to, which I think is important, in terms of changing those parameters along the way. And people are often worried that once they send that questionnaire to the agency, it's like, carved in stone and they can never change it. And I think that's such a good point, too. As they see real world scenarios, they start to realize, “Okay, maybe I am okay with this” or “Maybe I'm not okay with that after all.” Although, I find that's more of a rare reaction.
Stephanie:
Right.
Nicole:
You know, when they're first filling out the questionnaire, it's all theoretical, right?
Stephanie:
Yeah.
Nicole:
And then when it becomes real, people do find that sometimes they surprise themselves. So, I think that's really important to know that you can always change things as you go. But again, you know, change it and then apply that change to the future scenarios that you see, not retroactively.
Stephanie:
Exactly. Yes.
Nicole:
Okay. So, every agency has its own policy about how many profiles to present, right? Some present one at a time, some present - they have a limit, like no more than five or no more than eight. And others will present every family that they have that is interested. But assuming that there is some narrowing down to be done from the number of families that may be interested to the number of families the agency wants to present so that they don't overwhelm the expectant mom, can you talk about how an agency would decide which families to present to her?
Stephanie:
So, normally, the families that are presented are ones that meet her criteria and meet their criteria, because each party has their own criteria. So, it's important that they both match up with each other from the beginning when presenting. I'm a big advocate of presenting all of the opportunities to an expecting mom. I don't believe, as an agency, I should play God and decide which profile should be presented to an expecting mom because I don't believe that I should limit her opportunities.
Nicole:
Right.
Stephanie:
And so, I'm a firm believer in sharing all the opportunities that match both parties criteria. And I find that the moms usually are not overwhelmed. Of course, we're not presenting hundreds of families, like some agencies do. I will say that. That could be a little bit overwhelming. But for the most part, no more than 20 families are presented.
So, we find that when we tell a mom to choose a first choice, second choice and third choice and to make a yes, maybe and a no pile. And so, we usually find that really helps her in narrowing down. And we usually find she just zeroes in on one particular family. There's always one. It doesn't matter how many you present, there's always one that just stands out to her that she finds a connection with.
Nicole:
Yeah, and that's an interesting point because of course when people are not selected, they always want to know why. Right?
Stephanie:
Yes.
Nicole:
And I tell them, “You know, there's very rarely is there that information. It's not that she's picking that one family because she didn't like everybody else.” Right?
Nicole:
Correct.
Nicole:
It's because she usually – she just says, “This is the family. I just knew it as soon as I read their profile” and there's no feedback on anybody else. So, that's something people shouldn't expect, in terms of finding out why they weren't selected. They'll just find out when they are.
Stephanie:
Yeah, they want to know; “Should I change my profile?” No. No, it has nothing to do with that at all.
Nicole:
Right. You'll match with that right person.
Stephanie:
Exactly.
Nicole:
And then I think something also that surprises people. I think going into the process, people have – I think some of them – it comes from some of the ways that adoption used to be done in the past in terms of like waiting lists. And even how an international adoption is done to an extent where you go to the bottom of the list. And when it's your turn at the top of the list, you kind of get the next match. And I think people still expect that happens a little bit with domestic adoption, that that time factor plays some role. And usually it doesn't, right? It's the people who are just closest in, to what the expectant mom is requesting and vice versa, whether they've been active with the agency for a day or a week or a year.
Stephanie:
Exactly. Yeah. Like I said, going back to, I feel that the mom should be presented with every opportunity that is available.
Nicole:
Okay. Awesome, Awesome. You talked about her process and separating it into the piles, which I think is a great way for her to do it. Can you talk about maybe some of the emotions or concerns she might be feeling? Because I know the adoptive parents are obviously so nervous and so anxious to find out if they've been selected that sometimes, people aren't really thinking about, well, what is she going through with this process? So, can you talk about that a little bit?
Stephanie:
Yeah. So, it's funny, particularly when you come to the match meeting, everyone is just as nervous as each other. And so, the same thing is true when she's looking at profiles. She's nervous whether she's going to choose the right family or not, nervous about whether a family is going to keep the commitments that they are going to be making to her. Those are the things that she's nervous about, is choosing the right family and whether the commitments are going to remain.
Nicole:
Okay. Okay. That's interesting. Those are the top ones. And it often surprises me that she can make this huge of a decision, often just from looking at the profiles. I find that it's more the exception than the rule that she speaks with more than one family before really settling in on that one. Like you said, often that one family really jumps out at her. I always feel like if I were in her shoes, I would want to talk to everybody before I could possibly make that decision.
Stephanie:
Yeah.
Nicole:
So, I know you said that that one profile tends to jump out at her, but can you comment on how this tends to play out and how she decides, “You know, this is the family. I don't need to talk to all the people in my Yes pile, for example.”
Stephanie:
Yeah. So, I've been in the adoption field for over 27 years. And so, when I started with adoptions, there weren't even profiles. There were sheets of paper. And we were asking moms to choose her family off of a sheet of paper. And it was through that experience of me expecting my first child and going out and interviewing several baby sitters, just to babysit my child. And here we were asking moms to choose from a piece of paper. So, that's when I got the agency I was working for to move into the process of profiles where they actually got to see and hear and know the families through the profiles.
Nicole:
Right.
Stephanie:
So, we really find that the profiles, if they're done well – I always recommend hiring a professional to do your profile because you don't have another opportunity to make a first impression and you are trying to tell her everything and anything in this one profile book or online profile.
And so, I find that the moms really do find a connection with the profile, just through your words and through your photos that she wants to make that connection.
Now, I did have one of my favorite mamas of all times, several years ago. She was 14.
Nicole:
Oh, my goodness.
Stephanie:
She was so young, but she was the most mature mama I ever worked with. She did end up interviewing two families. She interviewed her first family and just didn't feel they were the right family. And she was right; they weren't the right family. And so, she interviewed a second family and just found that they were the right ones.
But most of the times, mamas just don't need to interview two families. They usually find that they have a connection with one. And when they interview, they usually find that each party has a connection with each other. Because she made a connection with your profile.
Nicole:
Right.
Stephanie:
And you find that you connect with her in the same way of the things that she found she connected with you in that way.
Nicole:
Okay, awesome. Awesome. And as I mentioned, when my clients present, they're obviously so anxious to hear if they've been matched, understandably. But they often expect that decision to come really quickly; in a day or two. And obviously, every expectant mom and her circumstances are different and her due date is different. But can you talk about what might impact the time that she takes to make her decision? And what kind of timing do you often see?
Stephanie:
So, I actually find that my mamas do end up making a decision within a day or two. Most are very excited about this process and actually most don't feel settled in their adoption plan until they know who they're going to be placing with. So, that's one of the biggest pieces that they want to get under their way and know that they've got a plan and that just gives them a lot of peace. And so, I find most mamas do choose within a day or two of looking at the profiles of a family that they would like to have a match meeting with.
Nicole:
Okay. Okay, awesome. Now, if an adoptive family, unfortunately, were to have a match that fell through because the birth mom decided to parent, which almost, that's usually the reason it falls through, although there can be some other reasons. How might that impact the way in which the agency considers them for future opportunities?
Stephanie:
So, I always tell families to take time to grieve that loss and to let me know when they're ready to jump back into the adoption process and to ready to have their profile shown again. So, I tell families, “Take a little bit of time, if you need time.” Some families don't need time. Some families are ready to jump back in, but the families go right back into the pool of families who are shown to expecting moms when they're ready.
Nicole:
And do they tend to get any sort of preferential treatment in a way? Does the agency try to show them to more opportunities where the criteria lines up? I know since you show everybody that might not factor in as much with your approach.
Stephanie:
Right. Historically, in all my years of doing adoption, I find that those families are usually chosen pretty quickly afterwards. So, I usually find, when a failed adoption happens, that they usually don't have to wait too much longer before they are chosen again.
Nicole:
Okay, awesome. Awesome. This has been fantastic information. Did I miss anything important about the matching process that you want to make sure to talk about?
Stephanie:
I don't think so, no. I just really appreciate having the opportunity to share my thoughts and feelings on this and to be able to educate families on what the match meaning should be like. So, it's not so scary when it comes time.
Nicole:
Right. Well, thank you so much for being my guest. This has been super informative.
Again, listeners, my guest has been Stephanie Aye, Founder and Executive Director of Adoption and Beyond. And the best way to reach Stephanie is through her agency's website. It's adoption-beyond.org.
But of course, listeners most of all, I'd like to thank you for tuning in. I hope you've heard something today that has taken some of the scariness and the unknown out of the matching process for you so that you can approach it with more knowledge and a sense of peace. Take care and I'll catch you next time.