Episode 408 Podcast > Full Transcript
One of the distinctions we continually make here on Adoption! The Long View is the difference between open adoption and openness and adoption. The former typically means having some sort of information about or contact with birth family, but the latter is more of an inside job. What's going on inside us and inside our homes, between us and our child? How open are we as parents to dealing with adoption issues as they come up? How comfortable can we become during tough conversations with our child around their big feelings about their birth parents or about being adopted? To what degree are we acknowledging and addressing our own triggers around our child having another legitimate set of parents out there? Some seem wired for openness, yet many of us struggle with all the inner clarity we need to cultivate continually for the unique calling of adoptive parenting. To become the open kind of parent our adoptees need us to be, we have to work at it a little more; be more intentional about increasing our capacity to be able to be there and go there with our kids.
Enter Maureen McCauley, a seasoned parent of four, now adult, adoptees. She is so seasoned, in fact, that she co-leads a seasoned parents group through Adoption Mosaic. I recently read an anthology of essays that Maureen edited called Lions Roaring Far From Home. I could tell that by being privy to so many adoptee struggles in the book, as well as adoptive parent struggles in her work with Adoption Mosaic, that Maureen is someone who can help us understand the dance between adoptee and adoptive parent as it relates to openness. When do we lead and when do we follow?
Lori Holden:
Welcome, Maureen.
Maureen McCauley:
Thank you so much. It is absolutely wonderful to be here. And I'm going to just clarify, I am a co-editor on our wonderful anthology, Lions Roaring Far From Home. My two co-editors are both adult Ethiopian adoptees. So, I just want to be sure that I clarify that.
Lori:
Wonderful. Thank you for that clarification. It's an important one. Let me tell a little bit more about you before we dig into the questions. Maureen McCauley's professional background is in social and educational welfare advocacy. As a former executive director of three nonprofits, she has facilitated and presented workshops in the US and Canada on adoption, anti-racism and positive aging. She's a writer and editor, including co-editor – There I have it in –
Maureen:
There you go.
Lori:
– co-editor with two Ethiopian adoptees of a new book, Lions Roaring Far from Home: An Anthology by Ethiopian Adoptees. Maureen is a certified Sage-ing Leader via Sage-ing International and has a certificate as an end of life doula for companion pets partnering with their humans. She has four (now adult) children and two granddaughters and lives in North Seattle.
So, once again, Maureen, welcome. And I'm so glad to be able to bring all that you have brought to other adoptive parents like me over the years. Well, maybe not all of it, because we only have a little bit of time in comparison. So, why don't you tell us briefly your path to becoming an adoptive parent?
Maureen:
Sure. Thank you. Again, I'm delighted to be here today. So, thank you so much for that privilege. My adoption journey began almost 40 years ago. At this point, I was married and wanting to have children then dealing with infertility. We did the infertility testing and that sort of thing. We went to adoption agencies, once we had decided that adoption was a good path for us, we believed. We went to the adoption agencies, talked with other adoptive parents, and ultimately made the decision to go through our local adoption agency. And so,, our sons were babies when they came home. And they are 36 and 34 years old now. And then we adopted our twin daughters from Ethiopia when they were six years old. And they are 34 years old, too. They'll be 35 in October. So, it gives you an idea that they're all for about two and a half years apart. And that's where we are now in it. And as you mentioned, also, each of my daughters has a daughter, so I have the two granddaughters as well.
Lori:
That sounds like quite a journey; a long journey. And even if it's not the same as the journey of anybody listening, I think there's so many just regular principles of parenting in a way that when your children are adults, they want to remain connected to you. And you want you need to know those principles early rather than later. This is these kind of problems would be better to prevent than to solve.
So, thinking back, Maureen, what are some of the differences between what you thought adoptive parenting would be and how it actually ended up being?
Maureen:
And that's such a great question. And certainly, I mean, because I have been able to kind of experience infant adoption and older child adoption, US adoption, international adoption, transracial adoption, there's been a lot of opportunities to learn through all of that. And I think when we first looked into adoption, I had what I call kind of the hallmark narrative of adoption: that win, win, win all around, a nice, neat package. I don't think I know all. No, I didn't at the time understand truly the complexity that adoption is for everybody in the Triad. And of course, it's not just a triad. There are also grandparents and siblings and aunts and uncles and cousins who are all impacted in all three; adoptive parents, adopted people and birth parents’ families. It's all there. And I don't think I certainly had a deep understanding of that complexity and the breadth of adoption.
I don't think I also really appreciated the notion of loss and trauma in adoption. I'm guessing that back then it didn't really occur to me. I know that it was very important to me when we were being placed with our first children, knowing that the birth parents had been counseled, I didn't really push too much on what that counseling meant. I knew the counseling was done by the adoption agency that was handling the placement of the children. I don't think I asked if there was counseling available to the birth parents after the adoption or what that looked like.
So, really in so many ways, Lori, it's been my eyes opening to the depth and the breadth that adoption is. I certainly saw it firsthand with my own children, but I don't think I really understood how all-encompassing it could be. And I don't mean that necessarily in an overwhelming sense, just to have a grasp; to have had the curiosity as to what adoption meant for each of us at the time and not what I so very much wanted at the time, which was children; to love and to raise. That was my focus then. And it's not a bad focus, but it was a naive focus to some degree in that I've learned so much since then from my children and from others in the adoption community about the complexity of it all.
Lori:
The gap between what you thought it would be and what it ended up being for you sounds very similar to the gap that it ended up being for me as well of two 20-something kids.
Maureen:
Right.
Lori:
Let's talk about the theme of this episode. How do we tell when to lead versus when to follow in the dance we do with the adoptees that we're raising?
Maureen:
Yes, I wish I had a very quick and easy answer for that. I think even just making that distinction, that there are times to lead and there are times to follow and for us as adoptive parents to sit with that. I think as parents, we feel so often we are to lead. We are to be the providers of correct information and the right path to follow and the right way to do it, because we want our children to be safe and happy and productive and we feel that we are the ones responsible. And I think also particularly adoption adds an extra layer of responsibility. We are raising someone else's children, and I hope that means that we want to do the best job that we can, not necessarily a better job than they could have, but a good job with the children whose care we've been entrusted with.
So, I think that knowing when to lead and when to follow evolves over time. I know that and I'm sure you and many other adoptive parents know that sometimes you'll be driving your child to T-ball practice and all of a sudden, from the back seat comes an incredibly piercing and insightful question about adoption out of nowhere. And that to me is the child asking us to both lead and follow at that point; to pause, to not overreact. And I will be the first to say that I probably on many times, especially when my children were little, overreacted to their questions, especially those around race, but particularly around adoption as well; that wanting to solve it, wanting to fix it, wanting to go in and repair and speak up and bring the power that I knew I had to the situation.
So, I think that my understanding of kind of when to lead and when to follow has increasingly been preceded by pause first, in making that decision. To really pause, to sit with it, not to go with my initial instinctive inclination to fix and to control, but to really pause. And that has helped me to kind of understand when to lead and when to follow.
The not overreacting is another big issue, as I mentioned. And I think that becomes we want to help our children. We want to solve things. And so,metimes we need to really listen to the child because the child will likely not come to us again if we overreact the first few times. Sometimes children and adults, we need to ask them, “Do you want me to listen or do you want me to give advice?” So, sometimes with my children, particularly when they became teenagers and into adulthood, and even with my husband, I will ask that question when something has gone wrong; “Do you want me to listen?” “Do you want me to give you advice? So, those two things have been really helpful in trying to discern when to lead and when to follow.
Lori:
That is super helpful and I really love how you say to pause, because that turns a reaction into a response, as we know. And then inserted into that pause can be a decision and you assess which way are you going to go, which is the wise path for me to take. It's that pause that is so important. So, thank you for sharing that.
Maureen:
It is. And thank you. And I think it's also good role modeling. And again, something that I came to appreciate over the years of role modeling for our children. If we can give them the understanding that it's okay to pause, you don't have to react right away. It'll be okay. I mean, sometimes of course we do. But most of the time, we need that pause in between and we don't give it to ourselves or to others as well.
Lori:
And I think having confidence around birth parent and adoption issues is really tricky to have a firm footing on that. And so, I think what I see a lot of the time, within parents I work with, is almost an abdication of leading on some of those; “Well, we'll wait till our child is ready,” or “If they ask about it, we'll do this.” And the analogy I think of is like, we don't let our kids do this with other things. We don't let them lead us with their diet or some of the other things that may want to do. We make sure that they have the healthy parts of their diet and then we give them room for them to lead, too. But I think that is an important piece of the leading and following when it comes to adoption issues.
Maureen:
Absolutely. I think, again, for parents to understand developmental issues generally of children of when they are in their magical realism time when they're little, when they are questioning things and beginning to understand in each child is different as far as how they grasp different things at different times. But I think acknowledging, and that may be an important point too, acknowledging that each child is different in their understanding, in their abilities and their willingness to be candid, their willingness to ask questions and their abilities to listen. All of that has to be factored in as parents, if we are going to lead. Maybe the best things that we can give to our children is that they feel comfortable in asking us questions. And that goes back to your original question about leading and following, but also kind of just generally so that we know when we can offer them options. Okay, given that question, if it's related to adoption, here are some of the possibilities that we can do. So, we're not saying you must wait till you're 18, till we can do anything. We're saying, “Would you like me to contact the adoption agency and see if I can get information?” “Would you like me to contact your birth mother and have her see if she can join us for your birthday?” Asking questions and again, pausing, sitting, listening, seeing where they are and understanding that what they say when they're six years old can be so totally different when they're ten, 12, 18, 32.
Lori:
It's important to keep checking in, right?
Maureen:
Exactly.
Lori:
{crosstalk 14:28} and end of answer. Yeah.
Maureen:
Exactly. Exactly. And also understanding. I think when children are little, they want to please their parents. They're taking notes of what our physical reactions are to what they're saying, even if they might not be able to articulate what it is our response is, they're seeing if we freeze, if we get flustered, if we seem to be angry from the question, they may or may not be able to process why, especially if we don't explain back to them. so, that checking in, over time, makes such a huge difference. Understanding where a child is developmentally and sitting with them and being with them and holding space for them, as we say, to go through and to continue to ask these questions, offering them options. I always feel it's important to offer options. So, they have two realistic options. I mean, they have to be thing – And we have to decide as parents if we say, “Is that okay?” the child may say yes because they don't know how to say no to a particular question. So, talking that out as best we can becomes so important, but offering the opportunities in a safe space for them, I think, is just incredibly important.
Lori:
I like that you're talking about holding space and making space and also that you mentioned that our reactions inform how much they're going to bring us stuff in the future and we kind of have to be aware of that. And that kind of ties in with the next question I have for you; what did you do within yourself to give the adoptees that you parent – because I know it's still it's always parenting – the adoptees you parent the space and permission they needed to process their own adoptedness? I guess I'm asking you to tell us your journey of opening to what your children needed of you.
Maureen:
I'm going to say one significant good thing that we did even prior was that we were living in a place where our children, when once we decided we were going to adopt transracially – our all four children are black and identify as black. And we were living in a place outside of Washington DC in Maryland that had lots of racial mirrors and lots of racial mentors. And that has been, I think, one of the most significantly positive decisions that we made. They grew up surrounded by people in our home, but at school, on their sports teams, in their whatever kind of summer programs; the swim team, all that sort of thing, people who looked like them. So, they were not othered at that point.
And that became important because with two white adoptive parents, we were very visibly an adoptive family. And anybody who has a visibly adoptive family knows that both friends, family and strangers feel free and entitled to ask all sorts of outrageous questions. So, their adoptedness was public. And that is, I think, just an incredibly important point for adoptive parents and adopted people to talk about. Because a same-race adoption will be different. There will be issues, of course, around adoption and so forth, but the public nature of a transracial adoption, given that not everybody favors it, not everybody sees it as a good thing, not everybody is going to say, “Isn't that wonderful?” is all too often, unfortunately, happens with adoptive families. And I'm not a big fan of the deification of adoptive parents. It does happen, but I'm not a fan of it at all. But understanding that there are plenty of people who are willing to ask about and judge your decision. And that's so incredibly unfair for children who had no agency whatsoever in the decision to become adopted.
So, all to say that one of the things I think that we did well was raising them in an area where they had racial mentors, racial mirrors, all kinds, including some adopted kids, some adopted adults, certainly black adults that could be role models for them as well. So, I think that was part of it.
And then but also my willingness to see and reflect and learn certainly what happened to my children with racial issues and racist issues and racism, even in this incredibly diverse place, to understand that, to understand what they as individuals were going through, and then to understand systemic and institutional racism. Also, to understand what it meant for them to be adopted and how each of the four have processed adoption differently. And that becomes, I think, a very important point. I'm glad that they had each other often to talk about some of those issues together, quite honestly, about adoption and so forth. And each of them has taken a different approach to search and reunion at this point. I always was open with them that with all four that if at any point they wanted to search, I would help them. And each has had different responses to that at different times in their lives. There's always been sort of a curiosity, some more than others. There's been some grief, some more than others. And it's just a real ebb and flow, and it's just keeping that communication open all the time.
And not to say that I didn't miss signals at times, of course I did. And I wish, looking back, sometimes I realized, “Oh, maybe that question was really related to adoption.” Seeing also sometimes how each of them reacted to rejection, whether it was from a friend, whether it was from not making a team, maybe it was from not being invited to the sleepover. Those things hurt generally, anyways. Adoption, though, I believe, adds another layer to it. Being late for pickup of my kids when they were little, that seems like such a small thing. And it wasn't. It was a big thing for some of them. You know, at times that because there was an innate fear, “Is my mother going to get me? Am I going to be here by myself?” So, such a small thing that is, though, colored by adoption, whether the child can articulate it at the time or not, but all that sort of thing, I think, becomes all engaged at different times. Not that it's always an issue. Often though, it is.
Lori:
And when you talk about having four different people and four different situations to adjust to over time, that is the dance, right? It is attuning and being there in the way that each one needs in the moment.
You also bring to mind in this conversation the scenes from This Is Us, the storyline about Randall processing his transracial adoptedness. And it was, I mean, Hollywood is getting better at doing adoption more accurately because they're hiring transracial adoptees and people with lived experience to come in and consult on those storylines. So, I think for the health of the adoptees we're raising, processing their adopted ness is something that we need to give them the opportunities to do. So, what can you say to listeners who may be thinking, “Boy, I hope I don't have a child who needs to process their adoptedness.”
Maureen:
I'm going to say your child is going to need to process that adoptedness. And it's what you will do and you will be able to do. You may stumble, but you're are going to have to do it. I appreciate your point about, for example, This Is Us and increasingly better, more informed portrayals of adoption that are more realistic, and not just cruel punch lines and throwaway lines and some of the awful things that kind of historically have been the way that adoption has been portrayed. Increasingly, I think things are getting better because more and more adoptees are speaking out. More and more adult adoptees are talking on TikTok, are producing blogs were (or maybe are) on Twitter or on Threads and so forth. So, are writing books, producing podcasts. And we can learn as adoptive parents so much from them as well. We might not agree with everything. We might be kind of shocked or challenged by some of it. And that's also part of what we can use as a resource. We should never ask, I don't believe, adult adoptees to do the emotional labor, to do the work. It's on us. We can learn from them. And there are so many ways to learn these days. Social media, for good or evil, does give us an awful lot of resources and information to do that. Because you're absolutely right, it is a highly individual dance. As parents, what worked for one kid doesn't work at all for another. And that's true around adoption issues, I am convinced as well.
Some of them manifest when the kids are little. One of my children would fall apart on Mother's Day, weeping and crying and just really being very, very upset on Mother's Day because of the loss that had been experienced. My others, not a problem. They kind of went through. And yet I saw in teenage years and young adulthood, I think some of the adoption, the trauma, the adoption loss, the adversity, even two of my sons were adopted as babies. And even there, there's certainly impact, in utero, on children as well.
So, all of those things, I think, as we open our eyes to understand every single dance is going to be very individual. We can bring a lot of information to bear and we have to be ready to pull out different pieces of it.
Lori:
And when it comes to our kids processing their adaptedness, it is a dance. And if we are reluctant to have them process their adaptedness, as you said, they're attuned to that. They are going to sense that within us and they're just going to hold back. But that doesn't mean it goes away necessarily.
Maureen:
No, no. I don't think at all. I think a lot of times, adopted children can be afraid to hurt their adoptive parents’ feelings. I think that's a big deal. And they have been told society's message is how lucky they are, how they should be grateful, how their parents adoptive parents are wonderful. I hope their adoptive parents are wonderful, but they have no obligation to be grateful and they have no obligation, except in the sense of we all should be appreciative of our each other, taking care of and loving each other, if that is the case. But it's also just kind of getting to that point of understanding how what happens at one time can be very different later on. And different incidents can occur, different events. Things can be said to our children. Keeping that open communication, I think, becomes what's most important of being willing to listen and to not judge and not to put ourselves in our own feelings or projecting them onto our children as well. It's a dance for ourselves; an inner dance, maybe for ourselves, telling ourselves to sit down sometimes.
Lori:
So, maybe listening to adoptee podcast and reading adoptee memoirs and doing all the stuff that adoptees have already put the labor in to be out there and reading them, even if some of it makes us uncomfortable. Maybe that's good training for sitting with our own adoptees when it could make us really uncomfortable being able to sit in discomfort.
Maureen:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And you actually remind me of something that's sort of, I don’t know, a corollary of sorts to this. There's an awful lot, for good reason, a lot of sometimes adoptees end up in therapy to help them. I mean, a lot of us generally people go to therapy and therapy can be extremely helpful. There's no question in my mind.
That said, what I would suggest to adoptive parents today is if you're sending your kids to therapy and hope you get a good therapist and there are lists now of adoption-competent therapists and adoptee therapists, but that you as the adult also go in therapy at the same time on these issues. And I didn't necessarily do that when my kids were little because I thought, “This is something they will go and they will learn and I will just hold on to my wisdom.” I don't know what I was thinking in some ways. But I would say now, I would have gone to therapy and should have gone to therapy at the same time to talk about some of these issues around adoption, around how their behaviors were affecting me, how I was affecting their behaviors and what we could do as a family to make things better. So, that's just kind of another bit of what I have learned now in terms of the dance. I should have been waltzing my way into therapy at the same time.
Lori:
And not to drive the metaphor too far into the ground, but as a dance, We don't dance alone, right? We're dancing in partnership.
Maureen:
That's right. That's right.
And sometimes it's good to dance alone. I have no, you know, get out the energy, get out the joy and celebrate the creativity or the mourning, whatever it is, the sadness. But yes, it in partnership, because an adoption should be partnership; should be community.
Lori:
Yeah, connection. In the groups that you facilitate with Adoption Mosaic, you address parents who are trying to better understand their adoptees. What are some of the common challenges that bring parents to this group and what advice do you end up sharing with them for these challenges?
Maureen:
Thanks for asking about that. Yeah, one class that I think we're talking or one program I think we're talking about with Adoption Mosaic is for seasoned parents and that's for adoptive parents whose children are at least 18. And we have had parents whose adopted children have been in their 30s, 40s, 50s because adoption issues don't go away and they can manifest in different ways, of course, in adolescence, in young adulthood, when our adopted kids become parents themselves or enter into relationships, or when there's been estrangement within the adoptive family.
And many of the parents, not all but often the parents that we have in our seasoned parents class have in fact become estranged or are about to become estranged from their adopted kids. And they really kind of don't know what happened. They were good parents, you know, not perfect parents, but they were good parents. And their children seem angry and seem not to understand that children don't think the parents understood what it meant to be adopted, what it meant to search or to reunite, what the racial issues were, what the role of money was in adoption, why their parents actually adopted.
So, in our seasoned parents class, we talk about what we as adoptive parents received as training when we adopted. And I know that the training and the program and the preparation that I got 40 years ago, well-intentioned, generally good at the time, but wildly naive when I look back on it now; not at all really the depth that one needs over time. It was helpful to kind of the initial early years and there are a lot of support groups and post-adoption parenting groups and services that are there. But over the years things change. And I think, and sometimes adoptees, one of the expressions is to come out of the fog of kind of understanding what their adoption losses were, even as they are in a very happy adoptive family, that really becomes irrelevant. It is, as we've talked about, I'm sure, a both-and situation. You can both love your adoptive parents and truly hate adoption.
I have had – my children have taught me so much about the role of capitalism in adoption, the role of who holds power in adoption, who makes the decisions, who's at the table for adoption policies. And of course, historically it's been only adoptive parents and essentially primarily white adoptive parents. So, just understanding that the dynamic is shifting.
For us as parents, we need to understand and maybe forgive ourselves that we didn't know then, what we know now, and that we are willing to learn. So, for a lot of the adoptive – one of the things we do at seasoned parents class is talk about some of the current issues in adoption, the history of adoption, how it started with orphan trains, how the National Association of Black Social Workers called transracial adoption, cultural genocide, how Gotcha Day can be very offensive to some, while it is perfectly fine by others. And plus, various – the federal laws and that sort of thing. And then going back to adoptee Twitter and search reunion, depression, addiction issues, ADHD, learning disabilities, intergenerational trauma, eating disorder issues. There are so many connections that can come through as a result of adoption.
Lots of positives too. I always want to stress that I love my children more than I can say, and I know that they love me too. And there have been some really strong losses and grief and sorrows for them along the way.
Lori:
I really like how you put all that, because what I hear when you talk about both parts, the both-and is this expansiveness, this almost dialectical space that we create to give that space for our adoptees to have whatever feelings they need to have to process their adoptedness. Processing their adoptedness is probably a key to avoiding some of those mental health issues that you meant and that you mentioned. Because if they get stuck in that process, that causes the – that can lead to all the things that we need to numb.
So, that expansiveness makes me think of openness. And this is what I meant at the top of the show about openness in adoption is so much different than open adoption; providing contact. It's really providing the space. So, thank you for putting that in such beautiful words.
You mentioned a little bit about one thing that your kids taught you. What else can you say that your children taught you while you were actively raising them?
Maureen:
And I have to say, I mean, the act of raising was filled with very active raising. Again, my four kids, close in age, into loads of activities. It is so easy, when I look back now, to get so caught up in the energy and the activity that's involved there. And it's very easy, I think, as a result, to kind of put adoption aside in a way because there are so many other issues that are coming up; so many other activities, so many things going on generally with what's going on.
So, I think, maybe we come back to that notion of pausing again, of saying, okay, even in the midst of all this frenetic, wonderful, often activity. And the right now, especially when we think of we're in late August. Right now, kids are getting ready to go back to school or have gone back to school. That can be a very hard time for a lot of adoptees. The transitions going back can be very dramatic for them as well. So, being open to the fact that the adopted child might not want to go back to school, might not want to go to the new middle school, might not want to go to the high school, might be feeling very fearful and making sure that we have enough openness to really talk about that and to allow the space for that, the openness for that. And understanding, never knowing for sure what is exactly adoption, what is was a developmental issue; we just never really know that. I'm not sure the adoptive people themselves know at the time. Maybe often they do, but not always. And maybe later they can reflect on it, which is again, one of the benefits of our seasoned parents class. As the adult adoptees reflect back on, “You know, when I behaved that way, it was because I was wondering what my birth parent looked like” or “I was wondering why they kept my siblings but not me” or “I was angry.” And anger, as we know, is often a manifestation of grief. And children might not necessarily want to cry or grieve, but it's much easier to be angry and slam doors and stop doing homework and that sort of thing.
Going back to that, leading and following an ebb and flow, we can even call it. I mean, it sometimes can be two steps forward and 3 or 4 back. Knowing, though, that it will move ahead again and having the openness and having an open attitude and the curiosity to be willing to let our children lead and know that we need to step in, though, as leaders as well and to co-lead sometimes. We've talked about, you know, co-creation and co-collaboration. And I think that has to be – which may be a little bit of a different idea for a parent. But there is an element, I believe, of kind of collaboration. We should be the better-informed ones as the adults and we should be ready to partner with our children, providing them information and space and support being there for them always. I've long been convinced that showing up is a huge part of parenting, so, emotionally and physically.
Lori:
Yeah. And I love that about cooperating, collaborating, co-creating with our adoptees, especially when they get into their teen years. We don't have a whole lot of time with them before they're legally able to do whatever they decide to do. And so, for us to really use that time, to have them choose us as their advisors, not have to take us because we're their parents and they depend on us, but really choose us; for them to want to have us at the holiday table in the years to come.
Maureen:
That's right. That's right. And again, every child is different. In adolescence, some become very involved with their friends. And so, their friends’ attitudes about adoption also will inform our children's understanding of their identities in adolescence. So, I think that's a very important point. So, equipping our children to have those conversations, with especially their teenage friends, about adoption and about race, if it's a transracial adoption or about cultural heritage, if it's an international adoption, that that becomes very important. Because as you say, it's a very short time. It can feel long when you're parenting, when you're parenting teenagers. And I do understand that. I would just always say, even if you're tired, take your child up on if they ask for you to do something with them or go somewhere or spend some time together to really ask those questions and see what happens. Because, you're right, then we launch them out in the world and that's a whole other time. They nonetheless remain our children and they're still going to ask our questions and so forth and come. But it's a different – they need to be well equipped around those adoption questions and conversations.
Lori:
Thank you so much for that. We are rounding the corner to our last question, Maureen. And this is one I'm asking of all Season 4 guests. How do you think we can best help our children build healthy relationships and identities right from the start or from today?
Maureen:
Right. Right. And I think that's a really important point, actually, because where we are is where we can start. We cannot go backwards and we need to come to grips and to peace with that. I think that one way, as I look in retrospect and I've mentioned this, but that we equipped our children well was raising them not in racial isolation, but in racial community. That they were surrounded by people who looked like them. I think we place a huge burden on transracially adopted children if they are raised in racial isolation. We as white people cannot really teach them about racism. And if they don't experience any until they are in college or beyond, that's a heck of a time to have to come to grips with some of that and to develop their own racial identity. So, I think that's one.
I think another way is to be open to hearing strange things occasionally from our children, things that you think, “What? Where did you possibly get that idea?” And it could have been from a friend, from a TV show, from social media, from something, and to take them seriously when they are asking these questions and to follow up.
Also, I think it helps to have, especially if you have more than one child, to have one-on-one conversations as often as possible with our children about some of these issues and be willing to ask somewhat leading questions so that we can get answers without appearing judgmental or that we have a particular answer that's the right answer in mind that we want them to provide. But again, to having space and to be willing to listen and to not judge, but to accommodate and to, as long as everything is safe and everything is appropriate, to make progress from there.
I think having adoptee mentors, having adopted adults in their lives, being able as an adoptive parent to say, give them anecdotes of, “You know, I was talking to X person. Did you know she was adopted from Colombia and she made this kind of remark?” or “You know, sometimes I have a friend who was – she was adopted when she was a baby. But, you know, she’s done –she's, of course, an adult now, but she still wonders what that was like, what her first few weeks of life were like before she went to live with her adoptive parents.” And just kind of leaving it there. So, the child may respond, may not respond. And again, age appropriate. You have to be the best guide that you can be on something like that. But I think offering questions, offering space, being uncomfortable, sometimes being able to say, “Yeah, that must just be really hard. I wasn't adopted, so I don't know. But that must be really hard to wonder why you were placed and somebody else wasn't, to not know at this point what your mother or your grandmother looks like. That must be really hard.” To partner with them and just be in that kind of silence and to be in that challenging pain and sorrow with them. And not to languish there, of course, and to move on, but to be willing to be with them, even in their sadness as well as in their joy and in celebration of the family that we have now.
Lori:
Wonderfully wise words. Maureen, I've so thoroughly enjoyed listening to you and learning from you today, and I'm sure our listeners will take a lot of gems of knowledge and wisdom from you as well. So, thank you so much for being with us today.
Maureen:
Well, thank you, Lori. And I'm very much still a work in progress at this point in my life. So, I just keep learning and I keep appreciating the learning. Thank you so much for having me here today. Appreciate it.
Lori:
Thank you for your openness and generosity.
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