Episode 504 Podcast > Full Transcript
Adoption: The Long View with Katie Coles and Amber Wooten
Lori Holden, Intro:
The moment you become a parent, time seems to stop and you can't see beyond the sweet baby or toddler you have before you, looking up at you with those big eyes that say, “You are everything.” Those days of full dependence on you feel like they may go on forever, in all the ways that bring feelings of both tenderness and exhaustion. But this podcast is called, The Long View. We know that those days give way to the next days and the next and the next. Days become months and months become years, and before you know it, you've got a young adult looking you eye to eye as they step out into the world.
What might this look like in a long enduring open adoption? How do birth parents and adoptive parents stay steadfast for the adoptee they both love, through thick and thin across decades. The adoptee is going through their obvious developmental stages that take them from fully dependent to independent, and at the same time, the parents are advancing through their lives; through less distinctly obvious adult stages, navigating the challenges of adulthood and sometimes parenthood and continuing to grow and gain abilities, clarity, and wisdom about boundaries between themselves and others.
Here with us today are two women who entered into what became a long enduring open adoption nearly 22 years ago when Katie placed her daughter into the arms of Amber. Neither of them knew all that was to come. Neither had completely worked out how to navigate their own big emotions, let alone each other's, and eventually those of the daughter they both loved and claimed. But step by step, day by day, they worked at it. They loved tenaciously. They endured hard things, never quitting on themselves, each other, or their daughter. Katie Coles and Amber Wooten are here with us today to reflect on all that. Welcome, Katie and Amber.
Katie Coles
Thank you.
Amber Wooten
Hi. Thank you.
Lori Holden
Let me tell you a little bit about yourselves. Katie Coles is many people: a leader, a baker, an auntie, a dreamer. But what brings her here today is that she is birth mom to the beautiful 21-year-old Ellie. Along with our second guest, Katie has been navigating the ups and downs of open adoption since 2002. During this time, this complicated and bittersweet duo have become the dearest of friends.
Katie is a Director of Product at a payroll company in Richmond, Virginia. About 5 years ago, she fell in love with her newfound hobby of baking. This avenue for her creativity resulted in the amazingly delicious Katie Bakes RVA. I should know; I've been fortunate enough to partake of her mouthwatering creations.
Katie's passionate about family. She has lots of nieces and nephews who make her life full. She's passionate about therapy, because we all need it, and about living in that balance of the day to day of laundry and grocery shopping and dreaming of opening a Ben and Breakfast in Italy. It's so great to have you here, Katie.
Katie Coles
Thanks, Lori.
Lori Holden
Let's now meet Amber. Amber Wooten and her husband, Chris, are parents to 3 lovely daughters, all who came to their family through open adoptions, now aged 21, 19 and 16. She continues to enjoy and navigate relationships with all of her daughters' birth mothers and birth fathers, with varying degrees of contact. Amber loves being able to stay at home to raise her girls.
Now that they are older and active on their own, she's found a new passion for tennis. She's very involved with her church, which keeps her busy planning events and parties and retreats. Amber loves to read and travel and very much enjoys time with family. Thank you for being here, Amber.
Amber Wooten
Thank you for having me.
Lori Holden
And I just want to say it was so great to actually meet the two of you in person at our book tour last week or before we recorded, and it was just great to give you both hugs in person. We had talked before, but this is the first time that we'd actually seen each other. So, thanks for showing up.
Amber Wooten
That was a bonus.
Katie Coles
It was a bonus. It was great.
Amber Wooten
It was.
Lori Holden
So, let's start here by talking about the circumstances of how your lives intersected. Katie, would you start that one?
Katie Coles
Sure. So, I found myself at 19 facing an unplanned pregnancy, and she was born when I just turned 19. And I had planned to parent. I thought I could do it. I didn't feel particularly drawn to adoption at the beginning. And kind of navigating the knowing that I wanted her to have parents. I wanted her to have stability. And I grew up in a traditional 2-parent home; very conservative background, and I wanted somebody who could give her all those things. And as an 18 year old, I had this kind of, “I could do it, but is it what's best for her” feeling? And so, I wanted her to have a mom and dad, and I wanted her to have somebody who was financially at a place where they could be home. I knew I couldn't do that. It would be day care and just a very different life. So, I had kind of transitioned from being confident in parenting to realizing all of those things kind of snowballing into this decision to start pursuing adoption.
And I was recommended an agency that was not a great experience for me. I know that many people have great experiences with agencies, and so I think that people find adoption and how that all works mechanically in lots of different ways. But for me, that was not a great experience. The families that they suggested just did not make sense for what I was looking for.
And so, I had a friend who had adopted two children, and she really took me under her wing. She had been involved in foster care and just had a real soft spot for me. And our paths kind of crossed, and she knew someone that Amber knew. And so, they kind of, behind the scenes, helped to kind of make that connection and coordinate that impromptu meeting. And so, when I got Chris and Amber's profile book, I looked through it and was just blown away with how real she was.
It's hard to explain, if you haven't looked through many, and I had looked through a lot of them. And I could just tell that she had shown up as who she was. And I felt this immediate sense of comfort and a sense of, like, I knew her, even though I didn't know her. So, we had several interactions after that, but that initial impression, even down to the pictures that she chose, it was so clear. Like, this is who we are, and this is who we want to let you in on, instead of this kind of perfect image. I always like to say, we have plenty of Olen Mills, back in the day, photos where we all look like we're getting along.
And I can remember before that, my mom looking at us and being like, “You three, get it together. You look nice to each other. You put your hand on your brother's shoulder and you” – you know? And I can't imagine the pressure of making one of those books, but Amber somehow managed to balance both that; like, here's truthfully who we are, but also let me see let you in on the fun side of who we are. So, was beautiful.
Lori Holden
So, that's your path. Amber, where did you come into the picture?
Amber Wooten
Well, when my husband and I realized that we would not be able to get pregnant without – Well, we actually did invitro, but we, without more invitro (and that was such a gamble) we decided we wanted to adopt. And so, our first path was through foster care. And so, we started the foster care path and met a person who just happened to be one of the two people who placed foster kids for this huge county, and we went to church with her. And so, she helped us get our first foster child, etcetera.
And few months later, she is the one that called us, and she used to work with the person who Katie just talked about, who took her under her wing, and said she's looking for someone to place her child with, and she has these parameters she's looking for. And would you be interested? So, that was how we were initially connected with her.
Lori Holden
Great. And what were the earliest days of your relationship like when you first met? Was this during your pregnancy, Katie? What was the timing of Ellie when you first met?
Katie Coles
So, Amber, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you, I mean, the turnaround was very quick where we were you found out and then sent me the –
Amber Wooten
What’s the exact date? Because I'm sure it's ingrained in my head.
Katie Coles
True. But we met, I think, in person the first time in August, and Ellie was born in October. I was far enough along where it was like, “Okay, We need to we need to make some decisions. We need to kind of decide if this is a good fit.”
And the first time I met Chris and Amber, we went to dinner with that mutual friend of mine. It was really great. It was, like, there was just this immediate connection and felt very comfortable. I think of it as Amber was who I wanted to be when I grew up. Like, she was confident and full and funny and beautiful and all these things.
And so, to me, what it gave me was the sense of I see so many similarities in us and I (or I hoped I saw so many) that it's not as if my daughter would be getting a totally different person than me. I didn't think I was a bad person. I just wasn't ready to do that. And so, I loved that it felt like, “Oh, she's just getting a more grown up version of who I would want to be as a parent,” and it just made me feel so much more comfortable. But I do remember after that dinner being one of those complicated feelings of, “Wow, she's great. They're great.” Like, you kind of know in your gut, like, “This is it.” And then I immediately was like, “I would like a reason for it not to be it,” because it would be so much easier in my head, like, “Oh, they're not it. That's not it. Like, sorry. I can't do this thing,” even though I knew it was the right thing. So, it was a very complicated feeling that that's roller coaster afterwards.
Lori Holden
Hence the word bittersweet in your bio. I don't know if you put that in or if I put that in, but I think everything in here, even the great wonderful parts of you 2 coming together and building something enduring and loving and centering on the adoptee you both love, has that bitterness to it as well.
Katie Coles
Yeah.
Lori Holden
Amber, how about you? What do you remember about those first early times of meeting Katie?
Amber Wooten
It's interesting what Katie said about there was a huge wave of realness that hit us both. It obviously hit the way you describe, Katie. And for me, it was the realness of here is a person who wants to potentially place her precious baby with me. And the reality of that just bowled me over, I think. But she's right; I thought the same thing is, like, we're so similar. Our senses of humor, the way we dressed. We would literally show up in the same – when she was pregnant, the type of like, the same color; shirt and black pants. There were times soon after that we showed up in the exact same brand and style of jeans, the exact same brand and style of shirt, after she wasn't pregnant anymore. And so, I felt that way too. And it felt like a little gift for both of us to have that kind of similarity with each other. And so, we did have an immediate connection.
So, I met her with her friend. We then met her parents. And my husband I met her parents. We then met her family with her brothers, and then we went shopping. And so, we actually had, even though it doesn't seem like a long time, we had a while before she gave birth, to make a strong connection.
Lori Holden
So, it sounds like there was resonance from the very first time you saw the profile book, Katie. And then the meeting for both of you, there was just a resonance, a feeling of comfort and connection maybe. But trust takes time. Do you have how did you come to trust each other? Katie, I'll ask you that first.
Katie Coles
You know, I think it was the consistency that Amber brought to our relationship, in that she was herself, and she was kind. One of the things that spoke so much to her character, and I probably addressed it mostly with Amber and I. Chris and I have a great relationship, but it's just different. Right? She and I are just having that different relationship.
So, knowing that they had a foster child at the time who needed medical support and that knowing that they had said, “We're going to go all in on loving him even though there is no potential for us to keep him. We are literally just doing this because of the need for this help for him.” Watching even that, watching her, because when I think when we all met with my parents, maybe, I don't know if my brothers were there, they brought him and he was just sitting there between us in a high chair and just the kindness and genuine; like, she was all in, in loving him that I think it just spoke to who she was; that that trust, it's almost like it was given before it was earned, and then her consistency throughout made it verified. It was like I already had that sense of truly knowing who she was and how kind she was and how it was like a soul deep connection and depth that she possessed.
Lori Holden
So, you were able to observe the way she moved through her daily life, especially with this foster care situation, that it was in line with your first impression of her. Yeah. Okay. How about you, Amber? How did you build trust?
Amber Wooten
Oh, you know, I could tell also Katie's heart from the very beginning, and her heart was that I want what's best for this child. She was sacrificing a huge amount, everything for this baby. And I knew her heart was broken. But in the entire process, her focus was on what's right for this baby. And if supporting me and Chris through the process was what was right for her, that's what she would do. And so, she was all in on supporting whatever we did and never one time questioned me or challenged me or doubted or anything that – maybe she did, maybe she didn't, but she never showed it.
It was a constant, “I'm on your team.” “I'm here behind you.” “I'm here to help you, if you need me, but I'm here. I'm supporting you.” She just really did her best to make me feel like the mom, even though I know her heart was broken over here. She made me feel like, “You take this baton, baby, and run with it. And I'm cheering for you.”
Lori Holden
Beautiful. Let's talk about the hard times because you've been together 21, almost 22 years. And I'm going to open this up, Amber, to your other relationships with the other five birth parents who are not here. But were there hard times that you had with each other, with your other birth parents? Amber, why don't you go first?
Amber Wooten
I have to say I've been incredibly blessed with all of the birth parents of my girls. I never had really hard times with the birth parents. I'd say at most, maybe the – maybe we’ll talk about this later, but in most any of the harder times I had, as the girls got older and I sometimes had to maybe even, like, advocate, like, for them to continue some relationship. Not that they didn't want the relationships, the wonderful birth mothers, but to just kind of keep the connection going; keep it going. When a you've got a tween or a teen who doesn't know how to do it, and then you've got birth moms who have, their lives are busy, busy, busy, just to keep that advocating that relationship going. But I really didn't have hard times with them.
Lori Holden
I love that you share that because that was my experience as well. I think a lot of times adoptive parents take some heat, rightfully so, for cutting off contact or diminishing contact or doing their part to shrink it. But what I think also happens, as you just said, is that we are the caretakers of that relationship and we do take that seriously. And even sometimes behind the scenes, making sure that that channel between adoptee and birth parents stays connected in some way. So, I'm really glad that you brought that up, Amber.
Katie, how about hard times? Can you recall any kinds of hard times that you had to work through?
Katie Coles
I think that's a very nuanced and layered question. Specifically, when I look at it in my relationship with Amber, I can say that there hasn't been. I think there were periods of more distance, and I would say that is definitely reflective of the years, the early years, where I just hadn't done any healing for myself. I had kind of put this whole experience in the bucket of, “But look at this this beautiful situation you've got. You've got now this amazing woman that you know, and you get to know your daughter.” And it was just this, “Well, it's beautiful open adoption.” And I believe that to be true. And I also can say and it was there was a death; a part of me died to do this thing, and I stand by that decision. But I think it put some distance between us because I had to mentally say, “This is my friend and her baby.”
And I somehow want to be involved, and I somehow am drawn to wanting this, which makes tons of sense. But in the moment, I had to put it in that, “This is my friend and her child.” And so, it put up that kind of wall to make that it was like a boundary that probably, looking back, was not the healthy way to deal with it, but it was the only way that I could kind of make sense of where we were.
But even in that, we never really faced any difficulties because, again, we were both focused on what really is best for Ellie. And Amber was thinking about what was best for both Ellie and I, which I just find to be amazing. And so, I think that helped us kinda skip the hardness.
Lori Holden
And I think you're both articulating something that is really fundamental to these relationships, which don't exist elsewhere in our culture really, is to focus on the same thing with clarity inside and respect between you. And that same thing is the adoptee, making it very adoptee-centered at every turn and everything later that comes out of that centering. So, I really appreciate that.
Let's talk about hard times for your daughters, Amber. Have you observed them going through any hard times regarding adoption and even open adoption, having birth parents come in and every hello is also a goodbye, any of that?
Amber Wooten
Yeah, definitely. I think that's been an education for me, and it's a journey for the girls. I've seen them all process differently. The struggle with their identity is definitely real and, again, different for each of them, whether it's identity with being multiracial. I mean, that happens for a lot of people, but in adoption, it's even more so, I think. The struggle with feeling that a birth parent may have moved on, which we know as adults, that's not true. But we know as adults, lives get busy. And so, the struggle with helping them just put into perspective their place with their birth mothers, who love them so much, and helping them understand, when they have new siblings, helping them understand why they weren't the one that they “kept.” Right? Helping them process through rejection.
Also, we were very, very involved with Katie's family; from grandparents down to everything. We vacationed and did Christmas Day holidays and stuff. And Katie's parents, from a very early age, agreed to and chose to grandparent all of my kids, and they were amazing. And so, my kids, to this day, call them grandma/grandpa.
So, that is that love relationship was there, but that doesn't stop the kids from stopping and going, “That's Ellie's family.” And that's difficult for them when they did feel like they got the short end of the stick sometimes when Ellie's mother was around all the time and theirs wasn't. And theirs birth mothers moved farther away, just with nature of life. And so, there was a there was a jealousy there that was hard on them to understand that it is a journey for them to have to say they're adopted. They've, in later years, told me that they were embarrassed when I would come to school, because I wasn't their mother or I didn't look like them. And I never really knew that that was such an embarrassing thing to them as a child, but it was. You know, that's – they're different. They're different than other people. And at those early ages, the last thing you want to be is different. But there was definitely a difference for them.
So, I really feel like the best thing that I could ever do with them was to let them be honest about it. I encourage it. I encourage them. I remember specific conversations where I'm like, “You have to take it out and look at it from every angle and grieve it. Whether you grieve the fact that you have siblings that you don't live with or you grieve the fact that you don't live with your biological parents and you don't have a quote “normal” family, you have to grieve it. It's okay to grieve it. And I think only after you grieve it, you can appreciate what you kind what you have, even if you'll never fully say, ‘Oh, it's fine.’ But the two things could exist side by side.” So, I feel like that was the best thing just to let them talk about it and be honest about it, admit it. And they would have to stuff those feelings. That was the worst thing they could ever do.
Lori Holden
Oh my gosh. You're speaking my language, Amber. And I think as a guiding principle of helping your adoptees through hard things, feeling the grief and feeling the feelings is so fundamental. Again, fundamental. Sarah says that in her book, Adoption Unfiltered, in her section which comes from all of her studying attachment theory. And my podcast, a couple episodes ago, was all about that with two adoptees also saying feeling the feelings is the way to keep the emotions in motion. So, I really appreciate that too.
Amber, how did you go about setting boundaries? You know, some of the common ones that adoptive parents worry about is like posting pictures online, if you've got a rule against that or what if they show up on my doorstep unannounced? How do you deal with some of the boundary issues that people worry about on the front end of an adoption?
Amber Wooten
Right. You know, once again, I didn't have terrible problems. But I do think that one of the things that kept me from having those problems is an open communication with them and respecting what they need. When I say they, I mean, the birth mothers; respecting what they might need.
And if I felt like I could help them meet some of those needs that were okay with me, it helped them. They didn't have to try to step over boundaries. So, that's just one thought.
But the only other times I really had was one of my daughters had some dietary issues when she was a baby. And I remember saying, “At this time, we're not doing gluten, we're not doing sugar, we're not doing this,” just to help her. And the birth mother being new to it, not being around babies, maybe thought I was overreacting or whatever, but chose to give her some things that she shouldn't have. And in the end, she got sick. So, that was probably something that taught her, and she felt horrible because she was awesome. But it just didn't make sense to her because she wasn't in her life every day.
And so, that was just something I had to kind of state, “We're not doing that, even if it doesn't make sense, we can't give her gluten, and there's a reason for it.” But some good communication really helped clear that up.
And the other one that I think about is there were times we would plan to meet, and kinda last minute, one would say, “Oh, I can't.” “I don't feel like it” or various things. And, I mean, she might have gotten sick, literally sick. But I found that I had to make a boundary of I wouldn't tell my kids. They were very surprised very often. We'd be at the mall and there she shows up, but that's because I couldn't tell them because I didn't want them to be disappointed. I've never had that once with Katie, but I never had any boundary issues with Katie. I think Katie knows that already, but I'll say that for the benefit of everyone else. But that is something I really just had to do is just kind of protect the child's heart where I could. If I felt like that person was still growing up, the birth mother who was still growing and learning what it was like to have a little child who was thinking about you, I just had to protect their heart a little bit with those boundaries.
Lori Holden
Hmm. Beautifully done. Katie, how about you? One thing I learned from writing Adoption Unfiltered with Kelsey, a birth mom, is that birth parents deserve to have boundaries too. How did you set your boundaries and what have you learned along the way?
Katie Coles
Well, it's been a – if you looked at it on a chart, it was a low line until it really spiked. I really entered into adoption thinking, in open adoption, whatever is best for Ellie is what's the right thing. And even to – it makes me laugh now – but saying, “Okay. Like, here's my plan. Here's my 5-year plan. If I could get letters and visits in the first 5 years, and then when she turns 5, I'm just going to, like, fade into the background because I don't want to in intrude in your life. I don't want to make Ellie feel confused and all of these things.” Little did I know that by 5, she clearly would know who I was and that that would be, you know, it just shows how much I did not understand child development at the time.
But I think because I took that approach, I defaulted to what's best for her is what's best. And sometimes, I should have stepped back and said, “In this moment, showing up for her is not what's best for her because I can't I can't show up. I haven't done the work in myself to show up in a way that is true to me and has actually allowed the space for me to heal.”
So, therefore, there's almost this unspoken tension and expectation of like, “See, I didn't move on. You're still my number one priority. I didn't move forward me. I didn't move forward. I want you to know I didn't just forget you. I didn't just move on.”
And the problem is that I can't determine how she receives that. And suddenly, it's like, “Well, I don't want that. I don't want you to just put your life on hold and not move forward.” So, I think learning that balance of if I'm healthy and take initiative to be responsible for my best self, I then can show up in our relationship.
And it's changed a ton. And in high school, for her, even she's navigating her own stuff, which we all do, and then suddenly, I'm there. And it's like, “Well, okay, are you here for me? Are you here for my mom? Like, what's going on?” And she, has expressed that. And it was helpful to hear because it's realizing, oh, what some may think as, like, oh, wouldn't that be the dream situation that you have you have this open adoption and they're really good friends, so you won't feel this tension between them. Again, she has her own position in this and had her feelings about that. And that wasn't necessarily the dream of, like, “Oh, you guys are best friends.”
So, I think the boundaries of putting that expectation and saying, “I am going to take whatever kind of relationship you can give me right now that's where you are in your process.” Then instead of being like, “Well, do you need me now? Are you ready? Are you ready? Are you ready?” Because then I'm always feeling kinda rejected, and she's feeling the pressure of, like, “I'm supposed to need you, but I don't know how to need you. I don't know where,” you know, it's this kind of stutter step. We've been able to step back, or I have been able to step back, and say, “I'm going to appreciate wherever we are in our relationship because us being okay no longer dictates if I'm okay.” Because if I've taken that off the table, I can just appreciate what we have instead of, like it all hinges on whether I've met all your needs, and it's like nobody can meet all your needs. That's not my job.
Lori Holden
I'm so glad that you brought that up, Katie, because I want all listeners to understand that we are three non-adoptees here, and we are not speaking for any of the adoptees that we're talking about, that they have loved this arrangement as much as the two of you have. And I specifically did not even ask if your daughter would be able to come on this episode, because I know that even though she's 21 and a legal adult, she could technically consent to herself coming on. But the reason I didn't ask her is I learned from working alongside Sarah that maturation and the resulting ability to give true and informed consent when a parent is involved, especially two parents are involved, may come later for adoptees than for non-adoptees. There's a lot of power dynamics under that. And so, I'm really glad you opened the door to me saying that this is why Ellie is not here with us today. She knows that you 2 are here today but she is not – I would never ask her to come on with the power dynamics at play. And she needs a little bit more time to get herself together. But the two of you are showing up as healthy selves with respectful relationships with each other, and that's what I want to point the spotlight on is how to do this over the long term.
So, I guess I want to ask you first, Katie; what are some of the realities of open adoption that people, maybe specifically expectant parents and birth parents, don't often see until they're deep into an open adoption?
Amber Wooten
I think everything is always grass is greener. Right? And I think that people who have closed adoptions – I've heard people say this. I'm I have literally been in meetings where people will say, “I just wish I'd had an open adoption because I didn't get to see my child grow up.” And I think the honest answer is there is no easy button. And there is no, “Oh, this will make it easier. It's just all very nuanced and all very complicated. As anything, if you have two people, much less three or four in relationship, the relationship equals complicated. And so, not bad. Complications are both good and bad, it just makes it layered. And I think it's easy to think, “Well, this path of adoption would have been better and easier.” And it just makes it different.
I think, specifically to birth parents, I would say finding people who understand the experience, I did not seek that out. I did not think I needed it. I was really in denial of what I needed. And I, kind of, bought into the narrative of, “Well, because it's turned out so beautifully, you don't need help. You don't need healing. You don't need to talk about the grief that comes.” And there is grief in it. Even in the beautiful relationship that Amber and I have, and we've come to a place now where we can both openly talk about adoption from our sides, and it's almost like we're talking about someone else. And that I don't take it personally when Amber says this to me. She doesn't take it personally when – and we're both, like, “Yeah. this is hard. Like, this is complicated and there's grief involved and there's understanding all of these different things.” You know, watching someone else raise your child, even if it's what I knew to be the right thing, and I was confident that it was the right thing, it doesn't make it easy.
And so, I think finding people who you can talk openly about that with, who have had that experience. While I know plenty of people who've gone through adoption from different angles and have very different feelings about it and didn't have the same experience. But just having that bond of, like, “We did walk the same path, even if it looks very different, we walked the same path,” was really helpful. And then giving yourself the space to really, kinda like you said earlier, feel the feeling so that you can move through the feeling instead of ignoring it while it's just like festering.
And I was very much the, “I'm fine” and people are like, “Do you see that bundle of things you're just like dragging with you through the last?” And I'm like, “No, no. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good.” “Okay. No. You're not.
And so, I do wish, if I had a magic ball to go backwards, I wish I would have found that reality sooner and said, like, giving myself the space to heal and grow would have been so beneficial to me.
Lori Holden
Great. How about you, Amber? What are some of the realities of open adoption that people don't see at the very beginning of one?
Amber Wooten
I think we go into it with expectations that aren't accurate. So, that's one thing I would say as we talk about what I advise is getting your expectations straight. But I think, number one, having an open adoption, one of the things we can deny upfront is that, like, “Oh, it's my child. It's just mine. I'm going to go on thinking it's just mine.” But in open adoption, you can't deny that. You've got another person who is there, and that child has a connection with them.
So, the whole goal the whole time is reality is you really are focused – like, we've talked about adoptee centered – you're focused on your whole – all your efforts on helping that child, and you become second and sometimes third, if you've got a birth mother you care very much about; your daughter's birth mother. But you back up and you're in the lower seat, and you're focused on helping your child and your birth the birth mother of that child.
So, that's one thing I'd say you don't think about is you don't go into adoption for yourself. You don't go into an open adoption for yourself, especially. You go into it thinking, “This is going to be to help them.”
But the other thing I think that is the bigger thing about open adoption is when they're babies, it's very easy to say, “Oh, for me, it was I want my girls to have a relationship with their birth mothers.” And I promoted it, and I encouraged it, and I engineered it and create all I could. And that was very focused really for the birth mother at that time. The focus is on what can I do for her? But as time goes on, and I feel very strongly that a birth mother does the really hard work at the – there's a lot of hard work. But at the very beginning, they make a tough incredibly hard choice to place their child for that child's benefit. And they place their child with a family that they trust or that with an agency who helps them, however that works.
But down the road, things turn, and now you've got a child who's you create you've developed and encouraged a relationship with a birth mother who, when they get a little bit older, especially if they were younger when they placed, their life might move on to look a little bit different. Maybe they move away. Maybe they get married. Maybe they have additional children, and it changes. And it's by no fault of the birth mother. And in my case, it was nothing they did wrong. It's just the nature of life. And then your adoptees become awkward teenagers, and they don't know how to keep those conversations going. So, now the birth mother is a little bit out of the scene – Again, not with Katie; always exception – you have a child who's saying, “Wait a minute. I thought we had a relationship, and now you're not here. What hello? Where are you?” And that's really hard to have one child state, “It's like a second rejection,” because they don't understand why this relationship that's been fostered no longer – it's not that it doesn't exist, but it is really often can drift off. And I'm sure that doesn't happen with everyone, but that happened with ours. And they're still out there and they still adore their girls, but their lives are busy and they're doing things.
So, anyway, I think that's what you don't expect with open adoption is that the pressure changes as they move on. So, now you've been creating a relationship that you're not in control of at all at that point, and it and it can be really hard for them.
Lori Holden
Yeah. And something in the that you said in there echoes what my experience was too. At the beginning, when the baby's a baby and there's not a whole lot of consciousness there, it's all just moving and eating and all this stuff, open adoption is for the birth parents because they're there. They're able to talk to you and have a conversation and state preferences and all this.
But there is a tip and at some point, it becomes less about open adoption is less for the benefit of the birth parents, even though it may start that way for us in our decisions, and it becomes all about the adoptee.
Amber Wooten
We talked about boundaries earlier. It kind of becomes a boundary issue is that I can't certainly wouldn't demand, but I can't even expect a certain level of involvement from the birth mothers at that time. You can't allow yourself to try to manage everyone's feelings either. So, you just continue to be the caretaker of the relationship as much as you can and just trying to help the kids understand the perspective of a life that is busy and as part of their journey, they're going to have to struggle through it, I think.
Lori Holden
Yeah. Good point. My last two questions might be too similar, so I'm thinking of asking them together and you can combine your answers. The penultimate question I want to ask you both because you've been able to create something so beautiful and enduring is what would you want others to know about entering into such a sacred relationship? But my last question that I'm asking all Season 5 guests is very similar; what do you wish all adoptive parents knew from Day 1 or from the time they're listening to this?
So, Katie, let me throw that one to you first. What do you want people to know about such a sacred relationship, entering into it, and what do you wish adoptive parents knew right from the start?
Katie Coles
You know, I do acknowledge that, or I can easily acknowledge, that what Amber and I have is unique. I know enough people in this space now to know that what we have is unique. So, I think that with that said, I think that I couldn't make it through the hour without not saying it. You know, I love to reference the fact that Daniel Tiger says you can have two things at the same time and two feelings at the same time.
I think going into this relationship, being able to say two things can be true at the same time, I can both watch and admire and love and respect you as a parent and watch you parent your child and also acknowledge there is this weight attached to that. I can acknowledge that there was a cost. There is a continued cost, and I choose to continue that; being involved.
I also think it takes humility on both sides. You know, even just to say, as we've all been talking, the thing that I hear both of you say or not say, but the theme behind it is that it takes humility to say, “I'm going to acknowledge that it's not about me. It's about this child who I have now the responsibility to protect and steward and foster these relationships and all of that.” And there is an inherent humility in that to say, “I understand I can't be everything to them.”
And I think that that if both sides come at it with that humility, there is the space to both be real with how you feel about it and also show up for the other side of it. I think that that – I don't know, it hit me today so clearly that that is just critical to it because I think, otherwise, you kinda come with your own agenda. And it's hard not to. Right? I mean, there's still times where that happens, but I think if you approach it in that way, it just makes a ton of difference.
And what I would say to adoptive parents from Day 1: I spoke with Chris and Amber one time at this event, and I'm representing, in front of a room of prospective adoptive parents, so I've got however many sets of eyeballs looking at me, like, “You have what tell us the magic formula.” And I remember thinking, “There isn't one.” Like, there isn't a magic formula. There isn't some perfect – you can make the right profile book or you can do the right thing or you can do all the right things and still have complicated relationships or every story turns out differently.
But I think, for example, what matters to me may not matter to another birth mom. So, I there is no, like, “I speak for all birth moms,” any more than anybody else can speak for any other area of this space, but to just be yourself. And I know that's scary. I understand how scary it is to do that. But the more that Amber was true with who she was, I was able to let go in a way that had I kinda gotten the, like, “Oh, are you just giving me the best version of you? “I probably wouldn't have been able to do that.
So, I think, while there's no magic formula, because everybody being themselves is a little different, I think being willing to take the risk to say, “This is who we are. And I know that we're not for everybody and that's okay,” is a hard piece of advice.
And, obviously, I've never sat in the other side of this shoes. Like, I don't know what it's like to submit myself to that kind of, not exposure, but, like, having somebody else dissect your life. But I think that when you're making a decision like that to have someone be truthful and open. It just takes off a little bit of the pressure.
Lori Holden
That's also helpful, Katie. You really touched on some of the qualities that I've noticed as well that help promote healthy relationships, no matter where they are, if they're in adoption or not. But authenticity, keeping yourself healthy, addressing your own wounds, being trustworthy, humility, not needing to own more than you need to own and caretaking. I think that was one of Amber's words. And then, of course, I adore that you brought in Daniel Tiger and the both-and because if adoption isn't both-and with the bitter and the sweet and the joy and the tragedy, at all moments, I don't know what is. So, thank you for all of that.
Amber, let me ask you the same final double question. What do you think people need to know about entering into the sacred relationship and what do you wish that all adoptive parents knew from right this moment?
Amber Wooten
I think the best thing that we can do in pretty much any sort of situation is like to get ourselves emotionally healthy. So, I think that we need to do the emotional work. And the emotional work allows us to let other people feel their feelings, and we don't take them personally. Everybody in all size. I mean, I'll go all the way up to Katie's mom. I mean, if I feel in an emotionally safe place, I can respect and show grace to everybody in the situation and imagine what the birth mother's feeling, what the birth mother's feeling, and it's showing grace to all the people in the situation. I think that's my biggest thing. Do the emotional work to get yourself prepared for it, but I don't think you know it if you haven't been in this space. I've learned that because of the space.
The biggest thing I would want an adoptive parents to know is to know that you may never be “enough” and you have to be okay with that. And to know that that's not a personal hit on you. I said before, “You don't go into adopting for you, for the feelings you get, for the glory you get, for anything you get.” That's not what you do, and you find out down the road, really, like I said, you're two or three seats back, if you're doing it well. You are not the one in the focus.
I would just say do the work to understand what's happening in the hearts and minds of your kids. Read about separation trauma. I mean, these things are so real. No one wants to hear it when their babies were in this beautiful little denial because we got this sweet little thing, but it's better to be prepared to understand them. It's better to be able to love them through their journey and support their efforts to connect with their birth families and just remembering it's not a rejection of you because they want something else. It's not about you.
And like Katie said, two things can be side by side. They can love you for who you are, but still have a great need to even understand or to have someone who looks like them or who has a biological connection with them or to know about their birth mother's and birth father's characteristics and traits and qualities and habits and likes and, to know their history. And let them be willing to explore and never tell them, “You should be happy with what you've got,” because they can be happy with they what they've got, but they have to be allowed to really feel, like I said earlier, feel the grief, feel the feelings, and to explore them.
Lori Holden
That is also beautiful. And between the two of you, I can see why this has been such an enduring and strong relationship because you're both doing the work, you're both extending grace, you both come to this with humility and growth and adoptee centeredness. So, I really appreciate you coming here to share all of that today.
Katie, do you have any final thoughts?
Katie Coles
You know, I think, it's funny to think that it's I've been doing this longer than not, in like when you start young, that's what happens. But there are still days where it catches me off guard; today, even now, and I've done a ton of work on it in a way that has been super beneficial.
I would say letting that wave crash and then keep moving. It doesn't mean that it isn't this beautifully woven story together. And I think that that, again, is that holding that tension of how both of those things coexist, I don't know. And honestly, it's almost better to be behind the curtain where I don't know how it all works. But to just kind of sit in that reality of there are days where things feel different than other days, and that's okay. But that none of that changes how beautiful this can be. And that, Lori, as you've said, and I talk about, I mean, I would say that's exactly the word is that It is bittersweet. And the beauty of it being bittersweet is that there is the sweet. It's not just bitter. It's not just hard. And even if there are moments of hard, it doesn't mean there's not good and beautiful, joy. And just this whole journey is if you're okay with that, then you can really roll with it versus, like, fighting against it.
Lori Holden
Yeah. I have found it to be all of that; bitter and sweet at different times, sometimes at the same time. But what it has always been is rich. It's been always very rich in experience and causes for me to excavate myself and have an examined life, instead of an unexamined life. So, Amber, do you have any final thoughts?
Amber Wooten
I love what Katie said, and it does make me think about if you have to dig around and say that some other than the obvious good of, “I love my girls, and I love my Katie.” I think it opens up people's minds in general to what love is, and it opens up people's minds to what family is. We have the fuzziest family boundaries you could ever see with all the different, you know, I don't even know what my title is for, like, my kids' siblings. I don't even know, but it's a big fuzzy boundary. But it shows our kids that love is – there's no formula for it. There's no certain way a family has to look. That love could just be extended and given to people in so many different ways that and it's the more generous you are with it; the better life can be.
Lori Holden
I'm going to just add one more word in here, and that is expansiveness as a quality that you're both showing. When you talked earlier about how you and Katie's family came together. Much in the way like in laws come together for a legal marriage, adoption is a legal thing and you brought your families together and you created this place of expansion and inclusiveness. So, I really appreciate both of you sharing all of that with us today. What an enduring and expansive open adoption can look like after many, many years. I would love to have the chance after Ellie's been able to process this and come into her own consciousness about it, in odd 20 years or so to find out what does she think about it?
But who knows? Who knows what that'll be like? But I will be thinking of all the groundwork that you've laid for her and all the hard work on yourselves that you've done on her behalf because you've been able to center the adoptee.
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